PAUL, YOU’RE A BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIST WITH BELIEF FIRST THESE DAYS – WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL?
I do business coaching, mainly licensed clubs and accountants, because they’re so closely connected, and I do AI consulting. It’s really interesting.
HOW DID YOU MAKE YOUR WAY TO SYDNEY FROM CENTRAL WEST NSW?
I was going to uni out there in Bathurst. There was a guy who saw me early in the year playing reserve grade and first grade in the bush in my first year out of school. He asked if I’d be interested in going to Sydney, but then I didn’t hear from him again for about five months. I played in the reserve grade grand final and back at the club that night, he called me again. The Roosters got me to come down for trial and the rest is history.
YOU PLAYED EVERY GAME UNDER ARTHUR BEETSON IN YOUR SECOND SEASON IN FIRST GRADE AT EASTS – WAS IT HARD TO LEAVE FOR CANTERBURY AT THE END OF ‘85?
It was hard to leave – I didn’t talk to Arthur for about three months, I was too embarrassed almost. But the opportunity at the Bulldogs was too good to pass up. At the time when I left, they called the Roosters the ‘transit lounge’ because so many players came and went. I had to do the right thing by myself more than anything. Arthur and I got along really well but I don’t think I really learned that much off him. It was very noticeable when I went to Canterbury in November of that year to start training – the difference in the culture was like chalk and cheese.
THE MOVE PAID IMMEDIATE DIVIDENDS, PLAYING IN A GRAND FINAL THEN IN FIVE OF THE SIX TESTS ON THE 1986 KANGAROO TOUR. WHAT ARE YOUR STANDOUT MEMORIES OF THAT TRIP?
I was the reserve forward for the match against St Helens and ‘Blocker’ (Steve Roach) dislocated his elbow about 10 minutes into the game. So I got to play the rest of the game and played quite well, then got picked in the side for the second [Ashes] Test. I played really well and got to stay there for the rest of the tour. And off the field…you know, what goes on tour stays on tour – but we had a great time, the best time of your life.
YOU WERE THE THIRD WINNER OF THE CLIVE CHURCHILL MEDAL WHEN THE BULLDOGS WON THE 1988 GRAND FINAL – DID YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT A PRESTIGIOUS HONOUR IT WAS THEN?
Yes, because the first year it was awarded was 1986 – I thought it’d be really good to win the first one, but obviously we lost [to the Eels] and they gave it to ‘Sterlo’ (Peter Sterling). In 1988, I felt like I was 12-foot tall and bulletproof, to be honest, at the end of that season. I remember (coach) ‘Gus’ (Phil Gould) used to give me three things to focus on each game; before the grand final he said, ‘I want you to win the game, get man of the match and score a try’. After the game, I went up to him and said, ‘I got two out of three’. So yeah, it was really, really special. As I get older, it becomes more and more special – I got to present the 2024 medal to Liam Martin and he’s a favourite of mine.
HOW DID THE MOVE TO PENRITH IN 1991 UNFOLD AND HOW DID THE PREMIERSHIP TRIUMPH THAT YEAR COMPARE?
I was talking to Warren Ryan about going to Western Suburbs, but then ‘Gus’ got me out to Penrith. The grand final win meant a lot because I went out there to do a job, and to be part of the first team winning a comp at any club is really special. I’d actually lived in the mountains for a couple of years in high school and played in the Penrith junior league for a couple of years as a kid.
FROM GRAND FINAL WINS IN STAR-STUDDED TEAMS AT CANTERBURY AND PENRITH, YOU WENT TO THE CAPTAINCY AT STRUGGLING PARRAMATTA. DO YOU HAVE HAPPY MEMORIES OF THAT THREE-SEASON STINT DESPITE THE LACK OF ON-FIELD SUCCESS?
I got to captain them in 50 games – that’s the only club I ever captained in first grade. In my first season (1993) there was an article in Rugby League Week that said the three hardest teams to win away from home against were Penrith, Cronulla and Brisbane – we won there in the first three rounds. We sort of bounced around and then we played Penrith on a Friday night [in July] at Parramatta; I tore my medial 30 seconds from the end of the game and missed the last five games. If we had won that game, we would have been in fifth spot. As it was, we finished up 11th.
They put Ronnie Hilditch in as coach in 1994 and we finished 12th. It was frustrating because after being at Canterbury and Penrith, where excellence was expected and there was a really good culture in terms of training and performance, the attitude at Parramatta was much more lax. That used to annoy the hell out of me. I went to the Old Boys Day at Parramatta and had a good time, I got along well with everybody and I played quite well myself, but it was just frustrating because there was so much more potential there that was never realised.
THEN A FULL CIRCLE FINISH TO YOUR CAREER, PLAYING A SEASON WITH THE ROOSTERS IN 1996 – WAS THAT THE PHIL GOULD CONNECTION AGAIN?
Parramatta finished second-last [in 1995] and I heard they were going to cut me, so I retired before they could. My manager was good mates with Gus, he rang up and said that it was unlimited interchange the next year and Gus wanted me to go to the Roosters. We’d moved back to the Eastern Suburbs because we were building a house there, so I played at the Roosters, played every game and finished up in the finals.
YOU PLAYED IN AN ERA STACKED WITH SOME ICONIC ENFORCERS – IS THERE ANYONE THAT STANDS OUT AS YOUR TOUGHEST OPPONENTS?
For five years at Canterbury, I was extremely fortunate to have Dave Gillespie on my side … but when I played against him at Wests and Manly, yeah, they were always difficult. Ian Roberts was really tough. I always found David Boyle to be a really hard opponent, he wasn’t dirty or anything like that – not like a lot of the others.
POST-PLAYING, YOU HAD A HUGE ROLE TO PLAY IN SOUTHS’ RETURN TO THE NRL IN 2002 AS CEO. HOW WAS THAT EXPERIENCE?
I used to say that it was like running a start-up and a going concern at the same time, because you’re basically running a football team but everything had been allowed to sort of fall away when they weren’t really doing much for two years. We had about six season launches that first year, because everyone wanted to have a function, so it was just manic.
The biggest challenge was that a lot of the people in charge just wanted to go back and do what they did before – and that’s why they got kicked out. We were trying to be more progressive. It was a really exciting time, I was there for 14 months…it was the longest 10 years of my life!
IT WASN’T YOUR ONLY FORAY IN RUGBY LEAGUE ADMINISTRATION THOUGH?
I was on the Board twice at Canterbury and both times I got there, they were not in a good spot. I think I left it in a better spot, but the politics…
Someone rang me a couple of weeks ago and asked if I’d get back on the Board there. I said my wife would divorce me, so probably not. I told her the next day and she said, ‘That’s the correct answer’. I was on the Board of the Men of League, I was a rep for the Players Association for a while, and I’d been in and around the game for a long time and obviously love it, but I found it’s better to be on the outside than on the inside.
DATE OF BIRTH
7 August, 1963
CURRENT AGE
62
BIRTHPLACE
Molong, NSW
POSITIONS
Prop, second-row
PLAYING HISTORY
1984-85, 1996: Eastern Suburbs/Sydney City Roosters
1986-90: Canterbury Bulldogs
1991-92: Penrith Panthers
1993-95: Parramatta Eels
REP FOOTBALL
1985: Australian Presidents XIII
1985-87, 1990: City Firsts
1986, 1988: Australia
1988-89, 1991: Country Origin
1988-89: NSW
JUNIOR CLUB
Holy Family Orange, Bathurst Railway
TOTAL NRL MATCHES
255
TRIES | POINTS
8 | 32
